Tulpa.info - guide-discussion

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| Perfect Possession is simple! Here's how to enact it! Great for beginners! https://community.tulpa.info/topic/17200-perfect-possession-is-simple-heres-how-to-enact-it-great-for-beginners/?do=findComment&comment=344265

„The “primary” tulpa is called the “Master”, and the “secondary” is called the “Slave”. I urge you to ignore whatever historical or sexual connotations these terms may have” If the author is aware of the connotations, why not just leave it as primary and secondary?

lol

If the terms Master and Slave make you uncomfortable, feel free to substitute them with whatever you please(ie, “Primary” and “Secondary”).

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8:16 PM

Crisis re-averted.

Half of the guide is talking about the naming convention and I still don’t understand why the author chooses those words

8:17 PM

They probably managed too many hdd in 1990’s when the hdds were not named primary and secondary yet

I urge you to ignore whatever historical or sexual connotations these terms may have.

Why though? Remember that tulpamancy is about having fun first and foremost.

Reminds me of the people who said the coding language was racist/sexist

8:37 PM

https://www.wired.com/story/tech-confronts-use-labels-master-slave/

Tech Confronts Its Use of the Labels ‘Master’ and ‘Slave’

Companies and programmers are reexamining how technical terms are used amid Black Lives Matter protests. But some worry the changes are empty symbolism.

Remember to name the master branch "main" instead.

the word "boss" became popular because people didn't want to be associated with slaved by calling their... boss, "master" Unfortunately "boss" etymologically means "master" too, it's dutch

„The “primary” tulpa is called the “Master”, and the “secondary” is called the “Slave”. I urge you to ignore whatever historical or sexual connotations these terms may have” If the author is aware of the connotations, why not just leave it as primary and secondary?

lol

@proxi - jump Fun fact, RedHat is actually replacing mentions of slave and master and such in it's products due to other connotations.

because it's one big touhou reference

If it helps people, great. The only thing I care about is that whatever words they settle on are descriptive and clear.

proxi

Half of the guide is talking about the naming convention and I still don’t understand why the author chooses those words

Lucilyn: Those are the descriptors for a kind of possession mechanic in a Japanese game (hence the kinda weirdness) he got the idea from (edited)

11:31 PM

Ice went with the originals to help it feel more symbolism-heavy/meaningful

11:31 PM

even though we think they sound dumb (outside of the game) (edited)

JGC

Reminds me of the people who said the coding language was racist/sexist

I’m not saying it’s racist, it’s just the author listed two only connotations that came to my mind when I read it and says I should avoid those connotations

and after reading the guide I still don’t know why they should be called master and slave

It's clearly a sex thing.

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Zen

It's clearly a sex thing.

but the guide tells me to ignore it

11:26 AM

maybe if I knew what perfect possession even is I would get the symbolism, but the guide doesn't even explain that

proxi

but the guide tells me to ignore it

It's obvious that it says that ironically

is the ignoring the historical connotation part also ironical then?

Probably.

11:31 AM

It's a trap for pure tulpamancers

Knowing the author, he put that in because he was trying to get a reaction lol

I don't think that Ice is the sort of person to be intentionally inflammatory like that. maybe a few years ago, but not anymore

Maybe not then, haven't seen him around in a while (edited)

I think he totally is still, he's gotten more subtle with behaviors like that but he hasn't really changed imo Knowing Ice it might even be some sort of 4D chess move, "If they think it's a sex thing, after I said it's not a sex thing, that proves that they're like, totally deviant like I already know all people are underneath their fake maaaaasks anime glasses swish"

1:50 PM

We need to, as a community, depict switching as something far simpler than people have made it out to be in the past. This is one step towards that. I don’t believe this is anything groundbreaking, but it’s something. Our small little contribution to the betterment of this turbulent community. To those of you that clicked this and can’t switch or Perfectly Possess, you need to listen to what’s asked of you! Kidding, kidding, but in all seriousness, switching is easy. Don’t let others tell you otherwise. You got this.

1:50 PM

It's funny because in the past switching was just like this, still

1:50 PM

I'm pretty sure even the first switching guides just kinda said "just do it"

1:51 PM

It's like everyone got brainwashed into thinking Felight's schizowall of theories was what everyone was thinking about switching

1:51 PM

Even Felight always complained about how "all the switching guides are too simple"

I guess his chess move worked. I definitely am a deviant.

Felight's idea of what switching is was incredibly flawed and he refused to listen to anything slightly outside of what he thought. Until he gets out of that cycle he probably never will switch.

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Iirc they also were kind of frantic about the whole switching thing

2:03 PM

And really distressed about it

2:03 PM

Neither of those two help

Despite constantly proving himself wrong he was still set on being obsessed with what he believed and just ended up throwing himself at a wall repeatedly then complaining that the wall wouldn't break.

Yeah they weren't exactly flexible either.

2:06 PM

i.e. open minded

~~Its not suprising that he's also transmed and a Kalvin Garrah fan.~~

2:09 PM

Sorry I've turned this topic into Felight bashing, I'm just still salty the bastard ghosted us

Yeah I can understand

Deleted User

Knowing the author, he put that in because he was trying to get a reaction lol

Always the best when you do it in places where you're never going to see if you got that reaction, lol

Rusty

Sorry I've turned this topic into Felight bashing, I'm just still salty the bastard ghosted us

Ghosting from logical point of view is always a good thing. People doing it either got hurt by you or are just mean and not good friends themselves. Or both. Either way, it solves a problem of toxic relationship always, by definition.

2:36 PM

Silly me, it got moved to #general-chat already

Rusty

Felight's idea of what switching is was incredibly flawed and he refused to listen to anything slightly outside of what he thought. Until he gets out of that cycle he probably never will switch.

Also probably needs to work on anxiety and negative thinking. I still maintain that mindfulness would probably be the key. They need to keep an awareness of who is fronting if supposedly someone else is taking front back and not realizing it for three hours.

Also they often said "symbolism doesn't work for us", which... doesn't make sense to me, considering tulpamancy is basically all symbolism

2:40 PM

I think they just didn't know what worked for them

Nat Osaka

Also they often said "symbolism doesn't work for us", which... doesn't make sense to me, considering tulpamancy is basically all symbolism

Symbolism never worked for us either. And we disagree tulpamancy is about it.

I think they needed to actually stick with something long enough for it to start working and build up into habit instead of bouncing from one thing to another to another back to back so that your brain never adapts to and conditions itself to work on it.

And what I mean by that symbolism doesn't work for us is that it we never needed any rituals for possession, switching, wonderland, imposition... And trying symbolic methods never helped either.

I have never used those as well

I like the "we've tried just having the expectation that we'll be able to switch and it didn't work", clearly from what was visible to others, I don't think they understood what that means.

My understanding of symbolism is about the mental structure/split you learn to create with identities, which is necessary for any kind of differences to form.

2:48 PM

That can happen on its own, or through purposeful imagery.

2:48 PM

For us, it was mostly pure repetition

2:48 PM

Repetition works the best for us

Nat Osaka

My understanding of symbolism is about the mental structure/split you learn to create with identities, which is necessary for any kind of differences to form.

But what I meant by symbolism above was this.

2:49 PM

But maybe I'm using the word too broadly

2:49 PM

MarkdownContext { Depth = 1 }

I've never looked into symbolism because we dont really bother with visualization in general. Pretty much everything we've done is either accidental or just kinda bullshitted our way through it and managed it somehow

Mood.

there were a bunch of posts here that got deleted. what's up with that?

Nothing on the audit log end of things - if you're talking about something that happened recently the deleted comments would have had to be someone deleting their own.

one of the posts was mine, and I know that I didn't delete it

How recently did you notice it was gone? (edited)

not long before I made my post about how it was gone. it would have had to have been deleted today after 8 AM US central time

7:34 PM

wait no, I made the post after 8, so it would have had to have been after that

I've got no explanation in that case - if it did happen discord didn't log that it did. Possibly a failed-to-send or some sort of bug? Check the device you sent it on to see if it shows there?

I know that it properly sent because Jamie replied to it

Are you sure it made it to the remote end and it wasn't some issue with connectivity?

Maybe you're looking in the wrong channel?

Ah yeah what Reguile said.

I know I'm not looking in the wrong channel because my post was in response to a post in this channel

People were talking about this same topic in three different channels. Unless you mean literal reply-reply.

they started doing that after

7:45 PM

here is what happened: I replied to AZ admitting that Ice might have done things just to be inflammatory in the past, but that nowadays he doesn't seems like that sort of person, then Jamie responded with his usual conspiracy theory shtick about how actually Ice /was/ still that sort of person, but just more subtle now, and how he must think that he's so clever, and then he talked a bit about the guide and how it didn't really do anything new and then he offhandedly mentioned the Felights, and then Rusty took that as a segue to start bashing the Felights and everything got rather off topic for a moment until the conversation died down and Rusty apologized for getting things off topic. and then after that people continued the previous conversation about whether or not the guide was doing anything new in another channel

?

that is the post

https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/546183720978350091/883699660944990229

oh my god ice made a guide

hmm, that link is not taking me to any post

7:49 PM

I'm gonna reload discord

7:49 PM

ok, discord totally just gaslighted me then I guess

okay, serious mode engaged, guide rejected ...is what i would say if i was GAT also why are people talking about his character then

Because the guide in question used master-slave terminology and mentioned roughly, and I very much paraphrase because I think it was phrased much better than this, "if you don't like it deal with it". (edited)

reasons for rejection: (as i read it) this is literally just a switching guide with terminology that is different than usual actually you probably could turn this around if you wanted 'stepping stone to switching' according to whom? how is this different from switching in any quantifiable way? sure it might 'feel' different to you, anything else? because it's literally like switching guides i read from 4+ years ago but seems less confident like 'oh oh i guess this might maybe be switching actually nevermind it's probably just perfect possession or something

'

I do not recommend viewing this unless you can already switch and/or Perfectly Possess, as it can mess up your perceptions of things which can prevent you from executing Perfect Possession

yeah yeah that's a thing, you're absolutely right how about wording it in a way that doesn't make people feel less confident in the process, then? eliminate the problem at the bud?

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Yeah, exactly. Acknowledge clearly the process will be flawed as you work on it so people quit viewing everything as a failure and train their brains to think it is very difficult and that they can't do it.

you talk about 'as it can mess up your perceptions of things which can prevent you from executing [stuff]' then explain a way to achieve switching without actually calling it that, leading to what the felights and a few others have

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8:01 PM

which is 'switching but it's actually fronting or perfect possession' HOW MANY NAMES are you gonna come up with before you realise that switching places with a headmate is called switching?!?!

8:02 PM

'it doesn't feel like it!' what does switching feel like then? i bet it feels more like switching if you do a satanic ritual beforehand but it's still switching if you don't do one

Did you guys read the hidden tag?

8:06 PM

Perfect Possession is the host switching out and, through the usage of imagery and theatrics, two tulpas switching in and co-fronting. When two tulpas are fronting, we find it is much more difficult and much less likely that the host will accidentally switch back in, and affirmations become easier when someone is assisting you. Tl;dr, Perfect Possession is a form of switching that is made to seem quick and easy. There’s a conception in the tulpa community, especially amongst beginners, that switching is difficult. The big problem with this is that tulpamancy is a subjective experience, and what you get from it will depend largely on your beliefs. We need to, as a community, depict switching as something far simpler than people have made it out to be in the past. This is one step towards that. I don’t believe this is anything groundbreaking, but it’s something. Our small little contribution to the betterment of this turbulent community. To those of you that clicked this and can’t switch or Perfectly Possess, you need to listen to what’s asked of you! Kidding, kidding, but in all seriousness, switching is easy. Don’t let others tell you otherwise. You got this.

8:08 PM

I don't know what to do with that approach, but I get what he's trying to do. I remember criticism from others saying that what stopped them from switching was thinking switching was hard. I don't quite agree with his approach, but I don't have much to say against it (edited)

8:10 PM

I do think the "Master-Slave" thing is too much, I think he could have mentioned it's a reference and if you want to use those terms to amplify your experience, that's up to you (edited)

8:11 PM

I mean, considering that there are at least two submissions that in my mind seem to have a different idea of what a term is, I don't think that alone is enough to disapprove a guide. And given switching advice in general, I don't think it's any more confusing than Verple's "soft" and "hard" switching (edited)

Would have been fine, the terminology is used all over the place especially in the mechanical/engineering world, but you have to just own and use the terms without apologizing for it if you're going to use them. Fence sitting doesn't take you very far. It also distracts big-time from the guide. Now everyone is thinking about that bit of controversy instead of the guide itself.

'100 messages discussing terminology isn't enough. i need to add my opinion too!'

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